A forgotten interview with René Magritte from 1961 has been discovered in the VRT archives. The surrealist painter features in the English-language TV series This is Not a Murder Mystery, which will be broadcast on Sunday.
‘Reality without mystery is impossible’: Forgotten Magritte interview surfaces in VRT archive
Kristien Bonneure
Published:
“We must recognise that reality without mystery is impossible,” Magritte said of his artistic vision in an interview for the then BRT. The discussion with art critic and writer Jan Walravens was broadcast on 7 December 1961 in the art programme Actueel.
It was recently discovered in the VRT archive during preparations for an exhibition about Walravens in Drogenbos. “As far as we know, there is no other television interview with Magritte in our collection,” says Kathleen Bertrem of VRT Archive.
Approximately 40 per cent of the VRT film collection has been digitised, primarily material from the news service and general programmes. Yet the Magritte interview has remained under the radar for more than 60 years. This seems to be the first time it has been taken out of its box.
How did the archivists discover the recording? The clue came from the archives of interviewer Walravens. He died aged just 45 in 1965 after a prolific career as a writer and art connoisseur, working on many radio and TV programmes in the 1950s and 60s.
As far as we know, there is no other television interview with Magritte in our collection
His archive is kept at the Letterenhuis in Antwerp. Katrien Vanhamel, a Dutch teacher at the Sorbonne in Paris, is preparing an exhibition about him for the FeliX Art & Eco Museum in Drogenbos and found his notes for the interview.
VRT archivist Thomas Eyskens took up the reins. “Walravens’ notebooks state that he interviewed Magritte on 24 November 1961, with a broadcast date of 7 December 1961,” he says.
“Based on that information, I found the film file and we were able to check whether the film was still physically present. And it was. I immediately realised this was an important discovery.”
Next, he delved into the photo archive, where he found several photographs of Magritte and Walravens. Between 1945 and 1963, BRT published the magazine De Radioweken, later renamed De Radio- & Televisieweken. It contained an announcement of the broadcast in the cultural programme Actueel.
I immediately realised this was an important discovery
In the interview, conducted at Magritte’s home, the artist alternates between concrete explanations of his work and general reflections on surrealism. “Reality without mystery is impossible,” he says. “I try to paint the intimate connection between the two, without knowing whether it will touch the viewer.”
Walravens also asks him about the trompe-l’oeil or optical illusion that often appears in his paintings. “That makes it possible to give a painting the depth of the real world,” Magritte replies.
And then there are the titles of his paintings. Often the connection with the work is not obvious. See The Kiss, above. Is Magritte looking for the difference or the contrast?
“I search for a long time for the right title,” he says. “But not for a contrast. On the contrary, I look for a title that coincides as precisely as possible with the canvas. The title is part of the image, but in language.”
He expresses his views on other artists, but not in a particularly complimentary way. “There is no one who has even the faintest idea of painting that is free from the constraints of certain habits, which leave me completely indifferent,” he says. “Except for two painters: the Italian de Chirico and the German Max Ernst.”
Magritte also makes a fictional appearance in the new TV series This is Not a Murder Mystery. Visiting England for an exhibition as a young man, he becomes embroiled in an investigation when someone in his company is found dead. The six-part drama is a whodunit loaded with references to surrealist artworks.
This is Not a Murder Mystery is an English-language Belgian production, directed by Hans Herbots and starring Pierre Gervais and Stephen Tompkinson. It will be broadcast on VRT1 at 21.00 on Sunday 26 October, with all episodes available on VRT Max.
The exhibition about Jan Walravens at the FeliX Art & Eco Museum in Drogenbos opens on 6 December and runs until 7 April.
Hans Vandevoorde, emeritus professor of Dutch literature at the VUB, is collaborating on the show and is full of praise for Walravens. “It’s incredible how much this man wrote. In the exhibition, we’ll highlight his significance for the visual arts.”